Ben Lesh says if you can do your best to actually get the users focus on what matters and kind of limit the noisiness of the other things that would be a big deal for certain folks.
Thanks to Tenon for sponsoring the transcript for this episode.
Transcript
Nic
Hi, I’m Nic Steenhout. And you’re listening to the accessibility rule soundbite a series of short podcasts where disabled people explain their impairments and what barriers they encounter on the web. First, I need to thank Tenon for sponsoring the transcript for this episode. Tenon provides accessibility as a service. They offer testing, training and tooling to fix accessibility fast. Today, I’m talking with Ben Lesh. Hey, Ben, how are you?
Ben
Fine. How are you?
Nic
I’m doing good. Let’s get right into it. What is your disability or your impairment?
Ben
So my my impairment is I have ADHD, and I have had it well diagnosed as far back as I think about seventh or eighth grade. So it’s, it’s been a long time.
Nic
So you’re one of those folks that have had a chance to develop coping skills and techniques to work around that, right?
Ben
Yes, but I would say that I probably didn’t develop many of those until later in my adult life, to be honest.
Nic
Right. You’re a web developer. Is that right?
Ben
That’s correct.
Nic
Yeah. So you live on the web, what what would be the greatest barrier you encounter on the web as it relates to your ADHD?
Ben
Well, ADHD, at least, for me, it’s defined by two things. And it’s different for everybody. But for me, specifically, I am quite forgetful when it comes to like executive function, like the things I’m supposed to do next. And like my list of chores to do, like, I tend to forget things. And then the other thing is, of course, like the impulse control, specifically, like getting into like Yak shaving or digging into, like, a problem, and then you dig into another problem. And… Or like getting really interested in some esoteric tech thing. And of course, the web is just chock full of these sorts of distractions, and even more, so like a lot of articles or different pages are actually engineered to try to keep you engaged, and stimulate you and get you to go after those things. And and I think it’s, it’s challenging to not get sucked into those things. And, you know, and still be able to remember, the other stuff that you have to get done and prioritize those things. Prioritization is a big difficulty when you’ve got that much stimulus.
Nic
How could websites do better to to reduce that kind of stress on you?
Ben
Oh, well, that’s a good question. It would be, it’d be great if there were, you know, modes just to limit distraction. Another thing that gets me sometimes is just very noisy interfaces, or things where there’s just walls of, of texts, like any sort of productivity tool or productivity website, that gives me too much information actually gives me a little bit of anxiety to look at. So if there were modes where you could kind of set those things to be more specific to your individual needs, that’d be great. Because I don’t think it would be, you know, ADHD mode, because it’s so broad for, like, a whole group of different needs between different people. But for me, personally, it’d be great if, you know, there was maybe fewer distractions or less noise on particular tools and pages, if I could toggle all that sort of stuff, it’d be great.
Nic
If you had one message to pass on to designers or other developers around accessibility, what would it be?
Ben
Specifically with regards to ADHD, it’s, it’s sort of hard to say but like, I think that it’d be very, like the the whole thing is, I went to art school, and I took design classes. And I think if you can do your best to actually get the users focus on what matters and kind of limit the noisiness of the other things that would be a big deal for certain folks. And then the other thing too, is you know, trying to make sure that their interactivity is somehow interesting or engaging like if content is too bland or boring, I hate to say it Like, it’s it’s sometimes hard to maintain focus on things if it’s too overwhelming, is another thing, but if it’s also too sterile I think that you can actually have the effect the opposite direction where it’s hard to, to keep someone’s attention on that and not on the, you know, wonderful things going on around them or out the window or
Nic
right. So it’s really a question of finding the right balance between right, too much is too much, but not enough is just not there.
Ben
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it’s, I think it’s a really hard problem to solve for. Because there are so many different flavors of ADHD, there’s some people with ADHD that really need to have like something to, to fidget with, or play with, or whatever, in order to maintain focus on what they’re doing, even though that seems like it would distract them. And then there’s other people who are more like myself where, you know, any, any distraction for what they’re they need to do becomes a hindrance. So, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s just such a broad category, and it’s diagnosed and an awful lot of people. But the big thing is, it’s like an impulse control thing. And so it just depends on what their impulses are. And I think that you just need a lot of customization in order to make sure that people can set things to some thing that’s right for them.
Nic
It’s so funny, you mentioned that because I was just about to suggest that maybe we should look into user control of what is or isn’t displayed, then you’re talking customization. So it’s really coming down to user choice, doesn’t it?
Ben
Yeah, yeah. I you know, I here’s one thing is I do wish that some of the social media platforms and they have tools that do this, like you can honestly get in get tools that will limit your access to certain things, but it’d be nice if the, the social media platforms themselves, like whether it’s YouTube or, you know, whatever, actually had mechanisms that recognize the fact that they were, they’re a little bit too addictive for some people that could, they could just, you know, like, Okay, so how much do you want to limit your time to like, I honestly, it would get certain platforms like that would get more engagement from me, if I knew that they weren’t going to actively try to suck me into what they’re doing. Because like, I’ll avoid certain things like Facebook and whatever, because I worry about getting sucked down rabbit holes, because I know that about myself, like, I know that that’s going to happen to me. So…
Nic
Excellent. Well, it’s not excellent to be sucked down rabbit holes, but your answer is excellent. Thank you, Ben. Thanks for sharing with us and I’ll see you around on the web.